Kia Stinger Out The Door Price Thread

[MurlinatoR]

AZ is on the lease payments, not the full price of the vehicle.

-Matt

They are almost NEVER on the full price for a lease. That's not what I'm talking about. Some states do the math like your calculator did on the monthly payment. Some states calculate the tax on the lease amount up front.

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[MarkyMark]

Costco called me last night to apologize. They indeed stated it is not $250 off MSRP, but $500 off invoice. The dealer is now back tracking, since I assume Costco called and bitched him out, saying there must have been some sort of miscommunication. I have the text messages and there was no misscomunication.

I then asked for a 3rd time for the Costco Member Only Price Sheet. They won't fork it over. I said fine... Shoot me the price for a 36 Month Lease with $0 down. He replied with the price for 10k miles; $687/month.

That number, based on the Kia Lease Calculator at 12k miles and $0 down, is $43 more than the car at MSRP. The BS continues...

-Matt

Let Costco know this dealer should be removed from their Dealer Participants, and post that dealers name on this blog, your FaceBook page, Twitter, etc... Exposing bad deeds and who is doing them is the only way to punish them with reduced business. Unethical folks usually understand money, and not getting any is about the only thing that will change their ways.

 

[MarkyMark]

That's reasonably close except the fees that you're missing. You probably have between $1,000-$1,500 in total so your payment will end up being in the upper $600's.

You also have to make sure how your state charges taxes on the lease. Some do up front and some do on the payment. That will also change your figures.

Leases are a mess to calculate properly.

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If I can toss in a thought: IF you can actually afford to purchase the car ($16k or so with savings w/previous car trade-in or sale, etc...), then you can save yourself $4,587.45 - which is how you can truly leverage the Lease Cash against the vehicle cost, rather than give it back over 36 months to Kia Financial.

What you would do is utilize the Lease Programs to Purchase the car. You can do this same-day if you want. Do the lease (push on the MSRP big-time before adding in lease cash - because remember, you DO care about the Residual Cost with this purchase model). Then pay your first month's payment (which will include that $131.07 interest).

The next step is to - right then and there - pay off the remaining 35 months. NOTE: YOU ONLY PAY THE PRINCIPAL OWED, you do NOT pay the interest in those 35 remaining months!!! That would be akin to you paying a chunk of change against the principal on your mortgage, but the bank still charges interest on it! Like a bank, Kia Financial, and no other Financial loan organization can charge interest when paying against the Principal owed - not legally anyway, and don't know who would try? Well, maybe a greasy dealer if they can somehow get away with it, but I highly doubt it... Not in today's world of information.

Thus, that $131.07 in interest x 35 months = $4,587.05 you would no longer be paying! In addition to this savings, you don't incur the Disposition Fee (which guards against depreciation for Kia Financial), because you not turning the car in, rather, you are now purchasing the car.

So the next step at the Dealer is to now purchase the car for the Residual. Finance (around 3% right now via many credit unions), and presto, you now purchased a Stinger and saved $4,587.05.

THAT is how you can truly get that Lease Cash to STAY off the cost of the vehicle, and in your wallet.

I'm doing exactly this sooner than later (in my world that means early this coming winter - I'm a disciplined guy with money, I'd like to think...). You need money to pay off the stream of payments. And I like to have whatever in cash to make sure the loan for the residual is only around $10k. So only about a $10 - $12k loan for me - tops. Get a 60mo loan, $225 a month or so, pay it off in 2.5 years.

Anywho, that's the way to make that lease cash truly stay as a discount on the car for you.

I'm assuming about 3% or fewer folks actually purchase a car this way?... Kia Financial knows a few do this, but can more than live with it, in order to get a massive amount of leases out the door.

MurlinatoR would have a better feel for this than me on how many people do this?...

 

[Berzerker]

If I can toss in a thought: IF you can actually afford to purchase the car ($16k or so with savings w/previous car trade-in or sale, etc...), then you can save yourself $4,587.45 - which is how you can truly leverage the Lease Cash against the vehicle cost, rather than give it back over 36 months to Kia Financial.

What you would do is utilize the Lease Programs to Purchase the car. You can do this same-day if you want. Do the lease (push on the MSRP big-time before adding in lease cash - because remember, you DO care about the Residual Cost with this purchase model). Then pay your first month's payment (which will include that $131.07 interest).

The next step is to - right then and there - pay off the remaining 35 months. NOTE: YOU ONLY PAY THE PRINCIPAL OWED, you do NOT pay the interest in those 35 remaining months!!! That would be akin to you paying a chunk of change against the principal on your mortgage, but the bank still charges interest on it! Like a bank, Kia Financial, and no other Financial loan organization can charge interest when paying against the Principal owed - not legally anyway, and don't know who would try? Well, maybe a greasy dealer if they can somehow get away with it, but I highly doubt it... Not in today's world of information.

Thus, that $131.07 in interest x 35 months = $4,587.05 you would no longer be paying! In addition to this savings, you don't incur the Disposition Fee (which guards against depreciation for Kia Financial), because you not turning the car in, rather, you are now purchasing the car.

So the next step at the Dealer is to now purchase the car for the Residual. Finance (around 3% right now via many credit unions), and presto, you now purchased a Stinger and saved $4,587.05.

THAT is how you can truly get that Lease Cash to STAY off the cost of the vehicle, and in your wallet.

I'm doing exactly this sooner than later (in my world that means early this coming winter - I'm a disciplined guy with money, I'd like to think...). You need money to pay off the stream of payments. And I like to have whatever in cash to make sure the loan for the residual is only around $10k. So only about a $10 - $12k loan for me - tops. Get a 60mo loan, $225 a month or so, pay it off in 2.5 years.

Anywho, that's the way to make that lease cash truly stay as a discount on the car for you.

I'm assuming about 3% or fewer folks actually purchase a car this way?... Kia Financial knows a few do this, but can more than live with it, in order to get a massive amount of leases out the door.

MurlinatoR would have a better feel for this than me on how many people do this?...

While you understand 100% what you're doing and aren't wrong, there's a little bit of terminology mix up and some things that are out of order (just so people don't get confused).

When you're immediately paying off 35 months of the lease, you are paying interest, but it hasn't compounded. Your interest rate is an annual rate, hence "APR." Your "per diem" (interest accumulated per day) is calculated by (Principal) * (interest rate/100/365), which is a pretty small amount, around about $7-12 depending on your principal. Immediately paying off 35 months reduces your principal to a single month, so your interest is calculated on that instead of $25000 (example), which is a *much* smaller amount of interest than one calculated on that $25000.

Again, it's a good idea what you're doing, since you're only financing a portion of the car in the lease (total - residual), your compounding interest is much lower since the residual isn't taken into account in the calculation, just wanted to clear up some terminology so people don't get confused.

 

[BriTay]

Thanks guys. Very helpful info.

 

[MarkyMark]

While you understand 100% what you're doing and aren't wrong, there's a little bit of terminology mix up and some things that are out of order (just so people don't get confused).

When you're immediately paying off 35 months of the lease, you are paying interest, but it hasn't compounded. Your interest rate is an annual rate, hence "APR." Your "per diem" (interest accumulated per day) is calculated by (Principal) * (interest rate/100/365), which is a pretty small amount, around about $7-12 depending on your principal. Immediately paying off 35 months reduces your principal to a single month, so your interest is calculated on that instead of $25000 (example), which is a *much* smaller amount of interest than one calculated on that $25000.

Again, it's a good idea what you're doing, since you're only financing a portion of the car in the lease (total - residual), your compounding interest is much lower since the residual isn't taken into account in the calculation, just wanted to clear up some terminology so people don't get confused.

Hello Berzerker,

You are flushing out yet another aspect I was NOT aware of. Thus, do I take the Principal (AKA the Rental Fee, which is the Adjusted Capital Cost - Residual Value), which we can pretend after the first month payment is: $12,000...

So, I take that Principal of $12k remaining, * ??? This is where my math goes nuts. You state "(Principal) * (interest rate/100/365). You state interest rate, but is that the Money Factor or Money Factor converted to an APR (which is around 4.7%)?...

Can't quite figure who to figure this portion of the equation. If you can lay that out again for the slow in mind (that be me!), that would be ideal!

It sounds like the $12k Principal remaining with the interest equation is like $12 or something trivial. Is that correct?

Basically, I really want to nail this so when going through this entire process with the dealer, I'm not getting nickel and dime'd. Alas, that's what it has come down to now-a-days. Can't just blindly trust, need to verify!

Thanks Berzerker!

 

[ghedoicy]

In my calculations, for a GT2 under MSRP at $47607, (see previous posts) the monthly interest came out to about $131.07. Keep in mind this was missing tax, title and license being rolled in.

That would make the interest per day $4.40 assuming a 30 day month. The one issue you most likely run into though, and I have not done this yet, but like the idea, is you won't be able to pay off the "loan" until it is actually in the system. My hunch is that take a few days...

Also, you can't get a new car loan from most banks as they now have a loan specifically for purchasing an off-lease vehicle. Usually the rates are a bit higher.

-Matt

 

[MarkyMark]

In my calculations, for a GT2 under MSRP at $47607, (see previous posts) the monthly interest came out to about $131.07. Keep in mind this was missing tax, title and license being rolled in.

That would make the interest per day $4.40 assuming a 30 day month. The one issue you most likely run into though, and I have not done this yet, but like the idea, is you won't be able to pay off the "loan" until it is actually in the system. My hunch is that take a few days...

Also, you can't get a new car loan from most banks as they now have a loan specifically for purchasing an off-lease vehicle. Usually the rates are a bit higher.

-Matt

[MENTION=496]Matt[/MENTION],

Good points. Some dealers I've talked with said it can be done in a single day, so evidently the Money programs in getting interest and such going is pretty quick! Funny how that works!!!

Even if a day or two, not a HUGE issue at all. I can handle $25 - $35 in interest rolled up.

NOTE: I see how you came to the daily interest rate. That seems a lot easier than how I was trying to calculate it. Berzerker can validate I'm sure.

I knew it would not be a new car loan, but was assuming it would simply be a used car loan. That said, I wasn't aware of a lease-back vehicle loan which is more. Sheesh banks. If it's used, it's used. Sheesh!

I am about 90% to go with a Credit Union, and many are around 3% - currently... However, if Kia throws a few thousand in straight up purchasing rebates, I might just buy straight up, and use the Kia Financial "free" money (almost free) to get the car.

NOTE: A lot of dealers out west are starting to pile up with GT2 AWD vehicles. I've seen a few dealers with 8 of them, and some Premiums. Not many GT1's or straight up GT's, or base units out there.

Base 2.0L: Assuming the lease program took a fair amount of those out of the market.

GT's and GT1's? Not sure. Either they are selling or Kia, as do most car companies, shipped their highest margin, loaded GT2 AWD's out the door to begin with... Kia should have a good mix at most dealers by June I should think.

 

[Berzerker]

Hello Berzerker,

You are flushing out yet another aspect I was NOT aware of. Thus, do I take the Principal (AKA the Rental Fee, which is the Adjusted Capital Cost - Residual Value), which we can pretend after the first month payment is: $12,000...

So, I take that Principal of $12k remaining, * ??? This is where my math goes nuts. You state "(Principal) * (interest rate/100/365). You state interest rate, but is that the Money Factor or Money Factor converted to an APR (which is around 4.7%)?...

Can't quite figure who to figure this portion of the equation. If you can lay that out again for the slow in mind (that be me!), that would be ideal!

It sounds like the $12k Principal remaining with the interest equation is like $12 or something trivial. Is that correct?

Basically, I really want to nail this so when going through this entire process with the dealer, I'm not getting nickel and dime'd. Alas, that's what it has come down to now-a-days. Can't just blindly trust, need to verify!

Thanks Berzerker!

You can use either one, all the factor does is give you an APR. It's easier math to use your APR as a percentage. So if your APR is 4.7%, on a principal of $12000, your per diem is around $1.50. Basically, each day you don't pay the principal off, your interest increases by $1.50, every month, $45, every year $530. Of course these are estimates, the math is a bit more complicated since we don't have exact 30-day months. $12000 * 4.7% comes out to $564, so it's pretty close.

In my calculations, for a GT2 under MSRP at $47607, (see previous posts) the monthly interest came out to about $131.07. Keep in mind this was missing tax, title and license being rolled in.

That would make the interest per day $4.40 assuming a 30 day month. The one issue you most likely run into though, and I have not done this yet, but like the idea, is you won't be able to pay off the "loan" until it is actually in the system. My hunch is that take a few days...

Also, you can't get a new car loan from most banks as they now have a loan specifically for purchasing an off-lease vehicle. Usually the rates are a bit higher.

-Matt

Both of you guys keep in mind you're not just paying a flat interest payment each month, you have an amortization schedule since your monthly payments are kept constant.

What they do is calculate your interest for the entire loan payment, compounded monthly, add it to your principal, then that's your "total owed" on the car final bottom line. Your monthly payment is going to be (Total) / (term in months). That monthly payment has a principal portion and an interest portion. You're paying a large amount of interest first, small principal. As you pay it down, the interest paid slowly goes down, principal slowly goes up.

Here's a good tutorial on how to figure out your amortization, but your bank should give you a detailed list of your amortization schedule somewhere on the website.

Hope this helps.

 

[ghedoicy]

Used is typically based on year, not if it's actually used or not. With my CU for example, a 2018 would be new regardless if it has miles on it or not. I just called them and they seem unsure how it would need to happen... Most likely a re-fi loan with cash out. Again, they would need time to make it all work, I'm sure.

-Matt

 

[ghedoicy]

That's right, but I wouldn't say that plays a factor if the plan is to pay it off in a matter of days (up to a week). Good info for someone looking at the BIG picture. At these amounts the change in interest is probably $2-5 for each month that passes.

I do want to know [MENTION=477]MarkyMark[/MENTION], are you planning on paying cash for the 35 months? Or finance that and the buy out amount?

-Matt

 

[MarkyMark]

You can use either one, all the factor does is give you an APR. It's easier math to use your APR as a percentage. So if your APR is 4.7%, on a principal of $12000, your per diem is around $1.50. Basically, each day you don't pay the principal off, your interest increases by $1.50, every month, $45, every year $530. Of course these are estimates, the math is a bit more complicated since we don't have exact 30-day months. $12000 * 4.7% comes out to $564, so it's pretty close.



Both of you guys keep in mind you're not just paying a flat interest payment each month, you have an amortization schedule since your monthly payments are kept constant.

What they do is calculate your interest for the entire loan payment, compounded monthly, add it to your principal, then that's your "total owed" on the car final bottom line. Your monthly payment is going to be (Total) / (term in months). That monthly payment has a principal portion and an interest portion. You're paying a large amount of interest first, small principal. As you pay it down, the interest paid slowly goes down, principal slowly goes up.

Here's a good tutorial on how to figure out your amortization, but your bank should give you a detailed list of your amortization schedule somewhere on the website.

Hope this helps.

It really helped. Thank you! And I had not thought about an amortization schedule, just how to calculate the "average monthly interest." This is just like a mortgage. Just as a mortgage, they want you to re-finanice every 5 years or so (so you never pay down the principal, just pay them interest all over again), after 30 months in a car lease, they are interested in you trading in and starting all over again. Got it. Thanks!

 

[MarkyMark]

That's right, but I wouldn't say that plays a factor if the plan is to pay it off in a matter of days (up to a week). Good info for someone looking at the BIG picture. At these amounts the change in interest is probably $2-5 for each month that passes.

I do want to know [MENTION=477]MarkyMark[/MENTION], are you planning on paying cash for the 35 months? Or finance that and the buy out amount?

-Matt

Hello Matt,

I'm a BIG as much cash, as little debt as possible (in all life purchase areas). Thus, I am still saving, and will pay all 35 months in cash. So that is all out of the way. I will then have sold my Mazda 6, which will fetch me about $12k. Thus, I'll use that to pay roughly half of the Residual Value. So now I'm just left with a $12k or so loan for a "used car" loan. 3% @ 60 months. It's a very cheap car payment, and I'll likely pay it off in 2.5 years, as I have with any car I've purchased.

 

[MarkyMark]

Used is typically based on year, not if it's actually used or not. With my CU for example, a 2018 would be new regardless if it has miles on it or not. I just called them and they seem unsure how it would need to happen... Most likely a re-fi loan with cash out. Again, they would need time to make it all work, I'm sure.

-Matt

I also just reached out to a CU I worked with to purchase a 2006 Maxima (worst car I've ever owned), but the Credit Union was great. 2.69% best rate for a high credit score (which I have), but I've also held a loan with them before - paid it off early (hope they don't hold that AGAINST me!). Should do well regardless of new or used I should think. 3% or below and I'm happy. Again, I'll pay the 5yr loan off in 2.5-3yrs, so they won't be paying even a full 3% of that loan cost anyway.

 

[Berzerker]

That's right, but I wouldn't say that plays a factor if the plan is to pay it off in a matter of days (up to a week). Good info for someone looking at the BIG picture. At these amounts the change in interest is probably $2-5 for each month that passes.

I do want to know [MENTION=477]MarkyMark[/MENTION], are you planning on paying cash for the 35 months? Or finance that and the buy out amount?

-Matt

Yep, but that per diem can really stack up if you have a high principal. People putting only a couple thousand down on a GT2 will have a principal upwards of $45000, which at an average rate of 5.1%, is $6.28 per day, nearly $200 a month, so it could be a bit.

I also just reached out to a CU I worked with to purchase a 2006 Maxima (worst car I've ever owned), but the Credit Union was great. 2.69% best rate for a high credit score (which I have), but I've also held a loan with them before - paid it off early (hope they don't hold that AGAINST me!). Should do well regardless of new or used I should think. 3% or below and I'm happy. Again, I'll pay the 5yr loan off in 2.5-3yrs, so they won't be paying even a full 3% of that loan cost anyway.

Of course having no debt is the safer hedge against your future, but paying off applied-for, hard inquiry loans like mortgages and car loans incredibly quickly can actually hurt your credit score, since you're not really "proving" you can sustain debt over a long period of time. It's usually not that bad, but just something to consider.

 

[MarkyMark]

Yep, but that per diem can really stack up if you have a high principal. People putting only a couple thousand down on a GT2 will have a principal upwards of $45000, which at an average rate of 5.1%, is $6.28 per day, nearly $200 a month, so it could be a bit.



Of course having no debt is the safer hedge against your future, but paying off applied-for, hard inquiry loans like mortgages and car loans incredibly quickly can actually hurt your credit score, since you're not really "proving" you can sustain debt over a long period of time. It's usually not that bad, but just something to consider.

Indeed. I mean, we paid off the home loan for 30 years, refinanced to 15 and paid it off in 7 or 8. Overall, what started as a 30 still took about 12 years so... But my credit score is good, my wife's even better so we should be okay.

 

[MurlinatoR]

Indeed. I mean, we paid off the home loan for 30 years, refinanced to 15 and paid it off in 7 or 8. Overall, what started as a 30 still took about 12 years so... But my credit score is good, my wife's even better so we should be okay.

I have a sneaking suspicion why the women always have a higher credit score....

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[MarkyMark]

I have a sneaking suspicion why the women always have a higher credit score....

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[MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION], Yah, that is very investing... The are a lot of factors. Men, overall, make higher wages, because - gulp, being honest here - some women have kids and CHOOSE to work part-time, and some GASP, want to actually stay home and raise kids. Reality Flash: A position pays the same for a man or woman who gets that job. Okay, so I won't go too deep into why women don't make as much as men, but it is NOT about inequality, it's about culture and life choices. Ugh...

Okay, so men make more on average and thus own more homes than women. That's bigger risk to a credit score corporation... And now he wants a Stinger?!...

But I know a LOT of women also in massive CC debt. It's on things most men (not all mind you) don't care about. Clothing, jewelry, etc... That debt is easier to manage thus les credit risk.

Maybe you were pointing to something else? Probably. Men tend to not want much, but what we want tend to be big shiny objects! The 80" 4K set, with the sweet sound system, the sweet car, and then we are set to go to that expensive playoff game!

Women like the little things more often than not. But they also like to look successful in a car. And therein is the last 10-years of BMW 3-series success. Dumb down the suspension, don't do a lot to it, lease the heck out of them to women. Presto! Sales-O!

Go Stinger!!! I believe a LOT of men will be buying the Stinger vs women. It will NOT be a Soul or Rio or Optima men/woman mix - not at all.

Now that I've thrown that out there, tell us MurlinatoR, what has your dealership seen so for in Stinger sales between men/women vs other cars in the lineup?

 

[MurlinatoR]

[MENTION=291]MurlinatoR[/MENTION], Yah, that is very investing... The are a lot of factors. Men, overall, make higher wages, because - gulp, being honest here - some women have kids and CHOOSE to work part-time, and some GASP, want to actually stay home and raise kids. Reality Flash: A position pays the same for a man or woman who gets that job. Okay, so I won't go too deep into why women don't make as much as men, but it is NOT about inequality, it's about culture and life choices. Ugh...

Okay, so men make more on average and thus own more homes than women. That's bigger risk to a credit score corporation... And now he wants a Stinger?!...

But I know a LOT of women also in massive CC debt. It's on things most men (not all mind you) don't care about. Clothing, jewelry, etc... That debt is easier to manage thus les credit risk.

Maybe you were pointing to something else? Probably. Men tend to not want much, but what we want tend to be big shiny objects! The 80" 4K set, with the sweet sound system, the sweet car, and then we are set to go to that expensive playoff game!

Women like the little things more often than not. But they also like to look successful in a car. And therein is the last 10-years of BMW 3-series success. Dumb down the suspension, don't do a lot to it, lease the heck out of them to women. Presto! Sales-O!

Go Stinger!!! I believe a LOT of men will be buying the Stinger vs women. It will NOT be a Soul or Rio or Optima men/woman mix - not at all.

Now that I've thrown that out there, tell us MurlinatoR, what has your dealership seen so for in Stinger sales between men/women vs other cars in the lineup?

Wow. Hahahaha

I was just going to blame it on the v@g!n@. LMBO

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[MurlinatoR]

Wow. Hahahaha

I was just going to blame it on the v@g!n@. LMBO

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And as for sales, definitely male-dominated. So far I have really only had one female customer with interest.

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